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public television stations. thank you. >> david bailey: welcome to "this week in richmond". and a very special welcome to john watkins. welcome back to "this week in richmond". >> john watkins: thank you.
>> david bailey: a settlement from powhatan, representing portions -- all of powhatan. portions of chesterfield, and some of the city of richmond. >> john watkins: actually, it's 80,000 to 90,000 people in the city of richmond.
>> david bailey: well that's a fairly -- >> john watkins: that's a good size piece of richmond [laughter]. >> david bailey: that is. that is. you've served in the senate since 1998. but have a decade-and-a-half
of service in the house of delegate prior to that. >> john watkins: sixteen years in the house before. >> david bailey: now last november, about a year ago, you announced that you weren't going to be running again. >> john watkins: right.
>> david bailey: you said you thought it was best to let people know, so they could sort it out who'd be -- >> david bailey: running. and across the aisle, senator mceachin, one of the democratic leaders, said about you at that time,
"the true epitome of a statesman and a virginia gentleman." so to get that kind of good words from someone that you occasionally do battle with because of political issues, was certainly a good commendation. >> john watkins: well,
and they are kind words. and i'm not sure that i'm entirely deserving of that type of accolade. but, you know, it was just -- i spent my time in the senate and the house, trying to represent the people of the districts
that elected me. >> david bailey: well, you're certainly, senator watkins, one of the giants who's retiring with senator colgan and senator stosch. >> david bailey: you, senator poehler. i mean some of the ones
who have the most seniority in the senate. and then others of your colleagues too. but there's some of you that have the institutional memory -- mm-hm [laughter]. >> david bailey: and know the process well.
and you will be missed. well, and i will miss, you know, a lot of it. but there are parts of it that i won't miss as well [laughter]. >> david bailey: yes. >> john watkins: you know, there's -- it's been 34 years, my involvement in
the legislature. and, you know, i've got six grandchildren now. and i want to be a little bit bigger part of their lives. and the wife and i want to take some time and, you know, go some places and do some things
that we would not otherwise have the opportunity to do. so some regrets, but, you know, it was a you know, an honored experience. i must say, i feel quite honored to have been there. >> david bailey: looking back over the time
that you've served, i think about a year ago as you were reflecting on it, you indicated that probably that transportation act was one of the -- one of the pieces of legislation that you really championed. that you felt good
about what had happened. >> john watkins: well i did. and it -- we needed -- it needed to have been done years before. and the will just was not there. things like the economy. the downturn of the economy, really accentuated the need. because what we've
found is that in order to accommodate current transportation issues, we were borrowing money. and i will never forget the -- had several meetings with the governor, and to lead up to that session. and one of the things
that i kept saying to him [laughter] was, "governor, my children and my grandchildren are going to be paying for these roads. and we're going to be the ones that are using them. and we're still going to run out of money in 2017."
so, you know, that dynamic and the economy sort of changed the importance of getting it done. >> david bailey: you know, with thinking about transportation -- and nothing that you vote on -- but we're having this conversation right at the time
where they continue to wrestle in washington about the long-range funding for transportation and infrastructure -- >> john watkins: exactly. which is so critical. >> john watkins: and it's -- everything up there is stop gap.
they're kicking the can down the road, is all they're doing. you know, they've got temporary funding now that's in place until april. and then it runs out again. and that adversely affects projects here in virginia, and across the country.
but they've still got that same mentality that virginia had with regard to the tax -- the federal taxes, cents per gallon. and it does not resemble or reflect the changing dynamics of the fuel industry and where it's going to take us. and, you know, it doesn't
matter whether you drive an electric car. a natural gas vehicle. or an internal combustion engine. they all have to use the same roads. and so they need to be paid for by all who use them.
>> david bailey: and whatever vehicles we're driving now days, i'm thinking about man, i'm probably getting at least 50% gas mileage than i was getting. >> john watkins: oh yeah. maybe more than that, back in 80s, the last time --
>> john watkins: sure. >> david bailey: that you were in the house of delegates. in 1986. jerry belouse [phonetic]. >> david bailey: yeah. when you addressed the transportation needs at that time.
and then three decades later, to -- >> john watkins: that's a long way [laughter]. to try to get something done. you know, another one of the issues that, i think that you are known for, and will be a part
of your legacy is the vrs reforms. >> david bailey: the virginia retirement system reforms. help our viewers understand what some of those -- what the problem was, and some of the reforms that were put in place.
>> john watkins: well it was a combination of things. again, the economy turned sour, and the vrs fund lost a significant amount of its investment income. usually the investment income is what is used to pay the retirees.
and -- so that it -- you know, the fund continues to grow. you know, there had been some things, some changes made earlier, back in the 90s. i remember when doug wilder was governor. he wanted to give state
employees a raise. and we just didn't -- it was one of those downturns in the economy. >> david bailey: mm-hm. >> john watkins: didn't have the revenues to do that. so instead, he said well what i'll do is i'll let the state
pick up the 5% that the employees have been paying out of their paychecks. and that way, you know, they'll get a 5% raise. well that sounds great in theory. but it's still money that the state is paying.
and what it did is it put in the minds of the state employees, the fact that their retirement was a total benefit paid for by the state, rather than them being a part of it. so initially, we needed to get that contribution. that piece of it back in play.
so that there was some commitment on the part of the employee as well as the state to pay it. and then we made the change as well, to use a defined benefit and a defined contribution hybrid. so that part of it
was an investment that was made by the employee. and unlike where vrs is right now, if you change jobs. if you move to a non-vrs covered job, you cannot move your retirement. you can take it -- >> john watkins: and it'd be
not as much money as you think, as if you'd waited until full retirement. but now there's a piece of their retirement that can move with them if they decide to go somewhere else for employment. the other -- the third thing that we did is the
legislature made a commitment to pay off the money that was owed the vrs fund, as a result of not contributing to it in some of those lean years. and that was a total of about $600 million, plus interest. so it's taken a few years.
and we also moved to make sure that we put in 100% contribution for what the vrs board felt like would be the right rate to be applied to vrs employees. so it was a combination of things that we did. but that changed the s&p's view of where the vrs was,
and where virginia was in terms of their bond rating system. and, you know, they in essence told us, well if you stick with what your plan shows, you know, you will maintain that triple a bond rating. and so that's what we did. >> david bailey: now with any
number of retirement systems around the country, state retirement -- some i think are local for major metropolitan areas being in trouble. it must make you and your colleagues feel good that you have the vrs -- the
virginia retirement system on some sound footing now, that really will -- for those that are paying in right now, they shouldn't be fearing will it be there for me? well, it's a lot more stable than many of the large systems
in other parts of the country. california. chicago. illinois. they have big problems trying to meet those payments. and, you know, i'm just glad that we're not there. so -- >> david bailey: right.
right. yes. >> john watkins: mm-hm. through the years, you've seen the challenges. and i think even when you announced your retirement, you were reflecting on some of those changes. having a citizen legislature.
and particularly after the court decision thus far, i would say -- >> david bailey: because they're still, be further review that affected the former governor, that it's extremely difficult for people to have jobs
and be in the legislature. but the pay -- i mean back when you started, if there could've been some system set up that just had the salary adjusted by the cost of living over those 30 some years, it would probably be what it --
the minimum what it should be. but it's -- to help people getting 18 or even if you count the other 15, $30,000 for this job that you all do -- >> david bailey: that unless people are retired, or have some other means,
they've got to have a job. so reflect with us some about the challenges of maintaining a citizen legislature. >> john watkins: well, i think the federal court's ruling only created a bigger problem in terms of citizen legislators.
you know, i recognize that the interpretation of honest services. particularly for someone in an executive position, was, you know, they -- it needs to be a strong, rigid performance standard there.
but when you -- when you rule on something like that, you're not only talking about like a governor who has a -- who is a full-time job. right. >> john watkins: but you're also providing an interpretation for all of us who are
in citizen legislatures. and, you know, for myself for example, i'm downtown working -- well now it's more like a full-time job [laughter]. but it used to be that, you know, you were down here for two or three months. >> john watkins: and then
occasionally interspersed during the balance of the year. well the rest of that time you're out working. and a lot of the relationships -- >> john watkins: a lot of customer relations. a lot of, you know, like
for me the nursery industry. i was -- i served on a board for the southern nursery association. which represented 17 states in the southeastern united states. and that association typically took us to different states. and they provided
us room and food. and -- but it was for, you know, we had a responsibility representing, you know, our organization -- >> john watkins: and representing the industry. and we weren't lobbying or anything like that,
but we needed to be where the needs were greatest for that industry -- >> john watkins: and try and solve problems for that industry. so i think it would be easy under the interpretation that the federal court now
has on its services to say to john watkins, you were in violation of that as well. because you took money from, you know, a professional organization, even though it represented your business, while you were serving
in the legislature. and the question is, did it affect how you voted? mm-hm. well, you can't help but have it reflect how you vote. because it was -- each vote that you take is really the totality
of the thing of your knowledge. and that's brought to you by organizations just like that. so it's going to be tough for citizen legislators in the future. and i think if you look at the ethics bill that passed last
year, my goodness. it's just loaded with triple hours. and you know, it's -- we've not seen the last of where that's going to take us. >> david bailey: you know; you've mentioned
governor wilder -- earlier about the vrs. a friend reminded me recently, who was in court -- in federal court -- when former governor wilder spoke, and said he just got loud as he could, and said, "you have the wrong man here."
>> john watkins: correct. that it was the -- this other man that should be here. >> john watkins: he's on a golf course in south florida. instead of the governor. >> john watkins: yeah. >> david bailey: and i think
that perhaps we'll still hear -- see some changes on that. but if not, it really -- as you have laid out -- it changes -- potentially changes things for every citizen legislator -- >> john watkins: yes. >> david bailey: in the united states.
>> john watkins: oh absolutely. it'd be a challenge. another subject -- and then one that you worked on, but didn't get resolved. it did own one vote in the senate -- >> david bailey: that was marketplace, virginia.
>> david bailey: as you prepare to leave the senate of virginia, reflect with us some about your perspective on then, and maybe even now, if it's changed on virginia's need to expand healthcare. >> john watkins: well
the problem is not going to go away on its own. you know, i understand the house's position with regard to the expansion of a government-run program. >> john watkins: i don't think that social security system and medicare system
are good examples of, you know, how to run it right. but, i mean those two programs, they take care of a lot of people in this country. to open up a third government-run program, i think would be difficult to manage
from a financial standpoint, going into the future. and after the temptation, always winds up being there that it's not well run enough to restrain the cost like it needs to be restrained. so until the governor really gets away from his insistence
that medicaid -- the whole national program -- be accepted. and that we really pursue the problem -- solving the problem, and the problem being providing adequate healthcare to those in need of healthcare, that can't otherwise afford it. the system we've got
right now is just broken. it's, you know, i serve on the board of a hospital. and, you know, those beds in those emergency rooms, they cost in the order of $25,000 to $30,000 a day to operate. >> david bailey: hm.
hm. >> john watkins: and so when you start using them for primary care -- >> john watkins: that adds up real fast. and i am mighty afraid that in the next five years, if we don't make
some adjustments, that you will see particularly healthcare in rural virginia, the hospitals will have to shut down. we've already had a couple of examples of it. so then what are you going to do?
>> david bailey: so when those beds are used, as you said, in the emergency room, somebody's paying for that. >> john watkins: absolutely. i serve on the cjw -- chippenham, johnston, willis board. >> john watkins: it's a
combined hospital system on hca. we see 120,000 patients a year through the emergency room. 120,000. and i'm sure they would have the numbers from there -- try and get -- >> david bailey: how many of them were not really the kind
of emergencies that would take you or me to the emergency room. well they -- >> david bailey: it -- that it was just -- it was primary care that someone needed. >> john watkins: that's right. and, you know, bon secours
and hca both are establishing, you know, interventional systems where they place emergency care centers in the communities. and the reasoning behind that is for people to utilize those centers, rather than tie up an emergency room
in a main hospital. so when you look into the watkin's crystal ball, what are you seeing as -- this certainly is one -- but what are you seeing as some of the big challenges for your colleagues that continue to serve.
and for the seven new senators that are coming in to join the 33 others, what are some of their biggest challenges? >> john watkins: well they're going to have to get a handle on the existing costs of medicaid.
and keep in mind that the existing system charges, you know, the state pays 50% of it every time somebody utilizes it. you know, if we were under a program that made use of the federal dollars, the maximum payout would be 10%.
so we've got to think about this thing from the perspective of a cost benefit formula as well. and right now it's just political. it's purely political. we -- the same thing happened when they expanded the
existing medicaid system and said they increased the age of the children that had to be covered. this was back during jim gilmore's administration. what passed initially was a full-blown expansion he vetoed it.
it came back to us, and we put together a market-based expansion of that system that he signed, and it works. it works well. so it's no different than that. well senator watkins, we very much appreciate your time; your service here.
we didn't get a chance to talk about virginia tech. >> john watkins: no [laughter]. >> david bailey: and the fact that you are choosing to retire at the same time, that your classmate, coach beamer's retiring. >> david bailey: but we
know your connections to virginia tech. your great-grandfather [music], who was there and served in the senate of virginia before you. >> david bailey: and so many members of your family. so i know that legacy
will continue as well. >> david bailey: so thank you so much for being on "this week in richmond". and we look forward to staying in touch with you. david thank you. >> alpha natural resources, a leader in mine safety
and an environmental steward. business community. for jobs, the economy and public health, virginia hospitals, our lifeline. >> the virginia education association, >> additional support is
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