hi there for the 718th time wepresent camaro vs mustang that's gotten a little stale hasn't it now that's more like it jonathan. yes mr. cammisa. remember the last head-to-head we didwith the viper acr in the corvette z06 quite those are fun cars therein liesthe problem there's been some chatter on the internet that we might have had alittle bit too much fun making that video we were cackling like schoolgirls rightand it seems that that indicated to them that we have in fact been reviewing carsprofessionally for decades this episode we need to review these cars on a purelyobjective basis now their opinions and
not have any enjoyment whatsoever sirto no laughing ever. i think we have to discuss the $81,000 gorilla in theroom $81,000 being the sticker price of the m4that we are testing and the camaro sits about $46,000. we have a $35,000 pricedifference between two cars and normally you wouldn't even review cars like thatexcept for one thing if you look at the performance numbers of these two carsthey're near identical in fact i have them right here the bmw does 0 to 60 in 4.2seconds camaro is 4.1 within the noise. a quarter-mile 12:5 at1:16 5 vs 12:4 at 15:8 within the noise they're identical. speaking of identical figure 8 24.1
seriously the only objective measurewhere there may be some differences in braking distance to six feet between thetwo which is right outside of what we consider the noise so in in all of our instrument teststhe cars are identical so effectively these two cars are right on top of eachother in our instrument testing those numbers are recorded in an idealenvironment chris walton our test driver he's has been launching cars in a straight line ten at time once a week for 20 yearsthings are very different when your at a stop light little inside baseball in order to makea 10 second long video of that drag race
takes about 75 launches and we did itseventy five times in all of those seventy five times the camaro won 68 of them over andthat just means that even though the test numbers are right on top of eachother in the real world that's the quicker car but i do want to say one nice thing about thebmw that is when you get the launch right it's awesome it's fighting youi mean if you launch it like at 1200 rpm gonna bog it then you have to waitfor the turbo lack if you launch it at too high an engine rpm like 1201 incineratethe rear tires and then a quick 1 to 2 shift will result in a big nasty grind if youmanage that shift quick enough and get
the clutch out too quickly then youincinerate the tires again in second gear i never felt in the camaro i got that perfectlaunch but it always felt like about 85 to 90% there and is consistent and it didn't matter if i was in the rev range like if i had a great launches at three thousand andclimbing it helped me out if i rev too much as a six thousand it would mitigateit and we just was fast it wanted the car to go faster whereas if you tried to race one ofthose things at a red light not gonna happen three different nannies turn on to mitigatewheel spin cut power do this too much power for the availabletraction so i think it's it's pretty
clear that in any sort of real worlddrag racer any sort of stoplight drags this is the faster but unless you livein the midwest there's this thing called corners i think both of these cars would be quicker to 60 for example ifthey had all wheel drive but rear wheel drive is sort of a defining feature ofsports cars and muscle cars and it's all about fun not necessarily numbers right so i think weneed to find a corner and see how all the cars drift if i may translate jasonhas spent a large portion of his life developing a completely useless skillwhich he would now like to show off for
you just like you've spent your entirecareer developing the skill of judging people and things so i'm gonna go ontothe skid pad and do a doughnut something you're very good at judgingjudging donuts serious review scientific no fun six. alright much better. you didn't get a ten because it was a little rough in the beginning but i picked up beautifully rough in the beginning because ofturbo lacks or what i want up doing is clutch kicking it in second gear that gets thedrift started but once the drift has man your right foot is 100%correlated to ya'll angle more throtle more drift it's a ten out of ten perfect drifter. fascinating go get thechevy
there we go. well i liked the smoke production better in this car it really looked like you where struggling more the bmw was so balanced it wasjust like watching us circle being carved and this one will take your fighting itgoing more steering input less throttlemaintenance yeah i thought actually naturally aspirated engine was gonna beeasier to modulate but this car wants to pull itself straight you are fightinga little bit with it surprisingly the advantages slight but it goes to the bmw i'm not sure whatwe've learned but let's move on i think we should do is put them both togetheron a racetrack and of course we can't do that way too much fun so we need randyto get in the car and set a lap time i'm at willow springs in latest model bmw m4 this one does nothave any optional adjustable shocks but
it does have a twin turbo six it has a tremendous amount of mid-rangetorque very very impressive when i shift from second to third on the straight away we come off the cornerput that power down with a little oversteer took that long on the shift to give full power back big carbon brakes on the m4 an optional package once they get a little heat in them stops just great especially the initial bite boom just pulls the speed on off the car it's a little soft with unadjustableshocks they've got to try to work well on the street and on the track ends up being a little soft and it makes the apshighly intervene but it's not a race
car but it is a very capable andenjoyable track car i'll tell you look at that at 3800 rpm the m4 is just rockin force just block turbos gives it a very broad torque curve ilike this bmw m4 better then i did in the pass its an improvement now it's time to get in the all-new camaro ss see how it measures up to a long timeclass leader oh yeah the chevy v8 a all new 2016 camaro ss i've been dying to get my hands onthis car because i've driven the cadillac ats a lot the same chassis and the ats is really good i love the rumble of the camaro if we had a singing contest the camaro
wins over the bmw little more min cornerundersteer in the camaro then in the bmw the camaro is better futher off the corner off at putting power down the bmw is better on theinitial could be just the turbo. it has that about three and a half to a four understeer on scale of ten the bmw's down there around one or twothat make the camaro easier to drive faster don't need a lot of shifting the broadpowerband and even though the bmw turbo engine has very little lag on the shifts especially it's veryobvious the power in the camaro comes back immediately it is right there steering is quick ratio i really like that shifters a little bit more mechanicalthen the bmw it's a great shifter man
it has been a great introduction to these cars their just a ball good time i thought maybe i was going quicker with the bmw i like the tire grip camaro is an easier car to drive fast and i'm notgoing to be able to tell you for sure until we put it on the watch damn it their tied again. use your words. i'm frustrated because we've devised aseries of objective tests and every time we've tested these cars against eachother they're completely tied so what you're saying is we're gonna have to usesubjective means to determine a winner right which is why we went drove them on the road i'monly concerned that we might have had a little bit of fun in doing so i dont think i had any fun. no no fun what so ever. i never have fun with you
why does it sound so wierd.it sounds terrible. what is that sound. it's a straight six always sound good in somehow bmw has managed tomake this one sound bad and then play music through the speakers on top of itto try to mask that like spraying glade on a fart it doesn't work. the problem with this car is notreally much of a luxury car in interior quality and ride quality in other ways and then as asports car it falls on its face too you don't want a sports car to sound like crap bmw is fighting a war at home that they're notfighting here right now the european government is on a crusade against fuelconsumption so really bmw didn't have a choice so it's going to a smaller lets talk about this for a second the steering feel remember this is the m i know i know when i turn the wheel left the car goes left but i'm feeling this big disconnect the reason for bmw for a m product you want steeringand it's it's it's dare i say rubbery yeah it is and the thing is you want steering feeli want steering feel i don't think m wants steering feel
i think m wants fast lap times which they got the car is capable the car is very capable. it's as fast as a camaro. just like driving and then also this is the fix dampersand i'm telling you in the corners here it's like you know it's it's not thatgreat tied down ride i'm used to from previous m3's when you're driving his car at a pleasant luxury car pace it's all fine it'swhen you start pushing it that it falls apart the engine starts sound gravelyand it doesn't communicate with you it's never fun this car is not fun unless your sideways wewere talking earlier before the cameras were rolling about things that the$46,000 camaro has that the $81,000 and the $19,000 hyundai elantra
$81,000 beamer does not have well its wehave a list so backup camera why does an $81,000 4 series well if your spending $81,000 you really need 500 bucks for a camera which bringsme to comfort access keyless go if they want another couple hundred bucks or soyou need to take the key out of your pocket to unlock the door but then onceyou're inside the car there's nowhere to put it back in yourpocket come on this is a luxury car for the love of anyway satellite radio no satellite radio cooled seats it does not have cooled seats or heated steering wheel exactly even things
like leather seats i mean i don'tnecessarily want leather i really like this cloth but that is an option on thiscar and we're at eighty thousand bucks and this car is missing stuff that just it's not acceptable if this car at the same level ofequipment that that camaro has $95,000 yea or somewhere over there used to bethat you know the interior materials in the design all that intangible crap wasjust so worth the extra money and this is a nice interior and it's a nice carand i am so sick of ragging on bmw but it's just not ahead of the game anymore. again if your going to have a car have the capabilities it has make every part really good and boy this is not a great shifter just not a great m4 i'm sorry to say imean there are parts of this car that
are excellent but as a whole is not agood sports car goes down the road wow look at its capabilities but where is theinvolvement. there is no involvement in this car. it is just as enjoyable from the passenger seat as itis in the driver's seat should be there should absolutely not the case in a m carright it should be twice as much fun from the passenger seat. you should be fighting smile stop smiling and i should bemiserable and now we're both miserable because that's very important sounds about normal watch angry such a good sound people might not get itdoesn't have overhead cams horsepower per liter and all these other nonsense metrics i don't really actually matter just listen to that and a v8
engine has some n v8 issues let's be honest imean you know kind of hold it four thousand harmonics going on it fits the personality of thecar it's a camaro it's brash and it's a sweet sound or violent way either way either way it doesn't feel fake just you know ithink jim's poor competency is a small book let me explain this is like 80 schassis but instead of a twin-turbo v-6 nobody likes it's got a hornet smallblock it's awesome in cattle i called you know what it is i was like that'swhat you guys do best small block as we know that's not true 26 better technology and i said listento me they were most expensive products you sell escalates you succeed his areall small blocks there's a reason why
that's what you do best it's clearly gm's best engine bmw every single objective performancemeasurement from steering kill two shifter engine response to engine noise to doeverything except initial break bite this is such a clear hands down winneryou know when you have three modes all you never touch them you know. you want a car just like you get in it. you don't have to worry about the suspension. is the suspension tuned well. great funny youshould bring it up because bmw is actually bigger offender here m has been ahuge offender in that category for a number of years but it's worse than ever i meanyou can't get the computer to stop
blipping the throttle unless you go tosport plus which just been mixed throttle pedal on or off its mading remember you know when we're doing the drag race you know this car we found launch best at like 2500 rpm you can hold it there that bmw couldn't hold it in nothing linear about the way that engineresponds and for a turbo is really good but when you compare that to a really goodnaturally aspirated engine lets get philosophical for a second have you ever been like i want a turbomotor over a naturally aspirated motor no listen turbos the interesting thing about turbos whenwe were growing up 1700 turbos were really special sab 99 turbos sab 900 turbo porsche 911 959my god we've had a reversal i think we
as the car enthusiast community haverealized that turbos are cool but their device to cheat and make a lot of powerand now they're being uses devices a fuel and in that application they don'twork in the real world turbo cars use more gas than they would otherwise but b naturallyaspirated engines are so much more responsive and have personality listen to this thing compare that tothat racket that fake racket in the bmw so you mr. cammisa you've owned 20 30 german cars never in america car it'snot as if you like that you put your money where your mouth is american is the subjectively better sportsclear subject i mean hats off to chevy speaking of which did you get a check from them. from chevy oh yeah. you know whati got the bwm too totally bounced the house
bounced is like diesel gave ruiningthe german economy or something no my amg check is bigger than ever i got to get on that program it's the best. who do you think bought this suit. it wasn't motor trend. sure wasn't. don't no laughing well what have we learned we've learnedthat subjective car evaluation is not fun at it's really no fun. no but also there is aclear winner this is a very easy decision to make i do have one confession to make i've alreadyforgiving you for that not that angus wrote a column recently where hesaid the camaro ss is more fun to drive than a bmw three series and iwas worried that he had just gotten out of a 340i that when we got the m4 heretogether with the camaro ss the m4
would wipe the streets with the camaroand in fact the opposite happened like my camaro concern was this american certainly is this it hastranscended its genre it's no longer a phony car it doesn't compete with the mustangs doesn't compete with thechallenger in now can compete with the best from europe for when i wasn'texpecting was how much more i would like the camaro than i like the m4 i think thisis all happening at a time where bmw is moving away from sports cars and intoluxury cars that happen to be capable better a bit numb and it used to be thatbmw's price premium was justifiable because of all of those intangiblesthe steering the handling the power turn calibration all of those little thingsthat you notice on a subjective tests
like the engine a lot better in thecamaro i like the steering better in the camaro i like the chassis better in the camaro the littlethings that the good vibrations if you will that you get from a car there morepresent in the camaro then the bmw the camaro's biggest problem is thathas a chevy badge on the back and says camaro but even if those two cars hadthe same price tag equip the same way that the camaro that i think i wouldhave chosen going home with that car funny that's the one i'm taking home actually that's the one i'm taking home i've got the key you stupid hey there internet didyou like that episode head-to-head you just watched guess what there's a brandnew one this is a mercedes amg g 65 and
marks the first time since the nineteeneighties lamborghini alamo to that you can get a v12 an suv you call an suvthis is the icon fj44 and it is an suv well it looks like we have ahead-to-head there's only one way to find out i can think of many ways to find out whatwe live right now at motor trend on demand dot com
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